In this series, Frank 151 invites you on a captivating journey around the globe, providing a unique glimpse into the narratives and imaginative landscapes of individuals who are driving creativity to new heights worldwide.
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Join us as we connect with the crème de la crème of the creative realm, bringing forth a diverse spectrum of perspectives that highlight the intersection of artistry, innovation, and entrepreneurship. From the pulse of urban streets to the serene landscapes, this series promises to capture the essence of the global creative scene, providing an immersive experience that transcends boundaries and celebrates the multifaceted expressions of human ingenuity.
One night, friends sat at a pub, talking like people often do when time slows down. Not about quitting, nothing extreme – just curiosity bubbling up over glasses that stayed mostly full. The idea came sideways, not planned, sparked by laughter and a shrug. Instead of loss, they wondered about balance, about space without emptiness. No grand mission, just a nudge toward something lighter. A different kind of normal began taking shape, quiet and unforced.
These days, you’ll find the drink showing up at concerts instead of just gathering dust behind soda bottles. It fits right in on beach outings, backyard grills, lazy afternoon hangs, crowded bars, and long evenings that fade gently without chaos. Pulling from both brewing traditions and underground beats, street visuals, ocean rhythms, and what young people do when they’re not chasing highs, it turns choosing less alcohol into something quiet, obvious, almost natural.
Out back with Andy Miller, one half of the team behind a booze-free beer label that launched just before anyone cared. He shared how they teamed up with surfer Jordy Smith early on, nudging Aussie habits around drinks without making a big deal of it. Turns out, some of the sharpest moments in business arrive sideways – like hauling wet cinderblocks across town in a leaky van bought online. Then there was that call from Robbie Williams popping up mid-FaceTime, unannounced. Not planned. Just happened.
Frank 151: What originally pushed you toward starting Heaps Normal, and where did the idea of building a non-alcoholic beer brand first come from?
Andy Miller: It came about, as so many of these things do, around a table at a pub with me and my co-founders. We all had our own reasons for wanting to cut back on the booze. Not necessarily to quit or make a big declaration about being sober, but just to dial it back a little.
We asked ourselves what it would look like if we created a non-alcoholic beer that you weren’t embarrassed to drink with your mates — one that actually tasted delicious, too. At that time, everything in the non-alc space was targeting people who were sober, or it felt like a big brewery reluctantly ticking a box. There was nothing for us. We all felt that gap in our own ways, so it felt like a pretty solid foundation to start something.
Frank 151: When you launched, non-alc beer wasn’t exactly mainstream in Australia. Did you expect the category to grow as fast as it has, or were you taking a bigger risk than it felt at the time?
Andy Miller: We suspected there’d be a few people like us who wanted to moderate their booze a bit, but who didn’t want to make a whole identity out of that choice. But we really didn’t anticipate just how many of those people existed in the market, or how quickly they would find us.
It’s always a risk starting a business, but we were lucky that we launched in the middle of the pandemic, right at a time when a lot of people were naturally reassessing their relationship with alcohol. In hindsight, it was rare to have this opportunity to set the tone for the new non-alc category. We didn’t realise it at the time.
Frank 151: You’ve built and worked across a few different brands over the years. How has that background shaped the way you approach Heaps Normal?
Andy Miller: I spent about fifteen years across strategy, marketing and communications in various industries, including beer, FMCG, arts and music. At certain times in my career, I worried I was too much of a generalist, but when we started Heaps Normal, that mixed bag made a lot of sense.
I had been working across brand, ops, comms and culture for my whole career, and it turned out to be the right mix of experience for me to be able to pull on all those threads at the same time.
Frank 151: A lot of non-alcoholic brands lean hard into wellness or sobriety messaging, but Heaps Normal feels more cultural than preachy. Why was that important to you?
Andy Miller: Thanks — that’s the exact kind of feedback we love, because we’re way less interested in how much or how little alcohol you’re drinking than we are in what music you’re listening to, what excites you and how you like to play.
When we launched, almost all the non-alc products were marketed around the idea of abstinence and absence — what you were giving up, not what you were gaining. We’ve been operating on the thesis that to change people’s attitudes, you have to throw a better party than the one that came before. Preaching is only going to alienate a whole bunch of people who aren’t interested in being labelled as one thing or another.
Frank 151: How do you make a non-alcoholic beer feel genuinely social — something that belongs at parties, gigs and barbecues — without turning it into a statement?
Andy Miller: I think the first part of it is that you have to actually make something people enjoy drinking. They have to enjoy the taste.
We had so many early blind tastings where we wouldn’t disclose that the liquid in the can was non-alc. It was always fascinating to see the reactions once we did, breaking down those mental barriers first. Then there’s the ethos behind the brand — not being preachy, being inherently curious and showing up in ways that non-alc hadn’t done until now. That helped reframe the role of non-alc in people’s minds.
Frank 151: You’ve collaborated closely with Monster Children and sit at the intersection of surf, art and youth culture. How important is that creative world to the DNA of the brand?
Andy Miller: When you’re trying to change perspectives, you have to do it from the inside out. We figure you have to be genuinely embedded in the culture you’re actually engaging with.
And drinking is so deeply tied to identity and ritual across so many facets of our culture — whether it’s music, hospitality or sport. Being a culturally engaged brand is less of a strategy for us and more just where we feel the most at home.
Frank 151: Pro surfer Jordy Smith is one of your co-founders. How did that partnership come about, and what does he bring to the table beyond name recognition?
Andy Miller: It came about organically through our network. Jordy is the living embodiment of what a lot of our community is trying to achieve, which is finding a way to marry a desire to perform at your best with wanting to socialise and be present at the same time.
He really helped us stress test that Heaps Normal wasn’t a compromise.
Frank 151: Do you surf yourself, and if so, how much does surf culture influence the way you live and work?
Andy Miller: I’m not a great surfer, but it’s something I’ve done since I was about 15. I miss being able to spend more time in the water.
Surf culture has influenced me less through the sport itself and more through the ethos around it. I resonate most with the culture of independence and connection to nature. It helps clear the noise of my surroundings at work and gives me perspective on my place in the vastness of the natural world. I think it helps me be a better human.
Frank 151: Australia has a long-standing, pretty heavy drinking culture. Do you feel like attitudes toward alcohol are actually changing, or just softening around the edges?
Andy Miller: I think it’s less about attitudes towards alcohol changing and more about the attitude towards not drinking alcohol that is actually changing.
There are definitely still some strong and stubborn beliefs out there, but overall nowadays you’re less likely to cop side-eye from your mates at the pub if you moderate your booze intake. The data tells us this is a real shift happening both in Australia and around the world. I think the shift has been accelerated by a generation that is hyper intentional about where and how they spend their energy.
Frank 151: Has starting Heaps Normal changed your own relationship with alcohol and socialising?
Andy Miller: Not really. I was already there, mentally, when we started. I was moderating, but I would still enjoy a glass of wine now and then.
I drink even less alcohol now, but if anything, that’s an outcome of realising I just don’t really get anything from the occasional alcoholic drink.
Frank 151: Where do you see non-alcoholic beer — and social drinking more broadly — heading over the next few years? What does “normal” look like now?
Andy Miller: Normal is going to look different to everyone. I’d say we’re now in a place where it’s considered fairly normal to have a drinks fridge — or menu — with both alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks options given equal weighting in terms of their importance.
The quality of non-alc drinks is only going up, and the category is constantly improving in response to people seeking it out more and more. There is a growing cultural permission to drink in a way that feels good to you. We launched our first non-alc draught beer on tap earlier this year, and it’s been amazing to see the hospitality industry’s response as consumers’ attitudes and appetites evolve.
Frank 151: Looking back, what’s one moment from building Heaps Normal that really sums up the chaos, excitement or absurdity of starting something new?
Andy Miller: Benny and I drove the Heaps Normal van from Sydney to Lismore to purchase some second-hand breeze blocks from a Facebook Marketplace seller. It was pouring with rain, and the sheer weight of the blocks meant we had to drive super slowly all the way back to Sydney.
Taking the time to source unique pieces like that together with our venue designer, Mike Delaney, is what’s given the Heaps Normal Health Club such a unique and interesting vibe.
Another time, we were waiting to hear back from Robbie Williams and his management team. They’d gone a bit quiet, so I sang him a voice note in a random, off-the-cuff tune. Two minutes later, Robbie FaceTimed me and sorted everything out.
So often, unexpected value has come from moments where we’ve taken random detours, agreed to random meetings or done something purely for the fun of it.